Hon. Pierre J. Dalphond: Colleagues, I didn’t really intend to speak to this. Senator Bellemare, who is our expert on the Senate Rules, was going to comment and will comment further — perhaps not today, but tomorrow or Thursday — on the technical content of the motion.

However, I can’t remain silent after the comments I heard today following a very productive exchange between members of the Conservative group. Since they didn’t have time to discuss these important issues amongst themselves during the two-hour break, we were able to benefit from their open discussions, which we were all able to participate in. I want to thank them.

That being the case, colleagues, I’d like to add some nuance to a few of the things that have been said.

Colleagues, this motion, once adopted, would give all parliamentary groups and parties in the Senate more equitable procedural powers, albeit with some remaining discrepancies, such as ex officio voting rights at committee.

As such, this motion is a positive step to allow groups to participate in the organization of the Senate proceedings, such as the ability to defer votes, and also to have committee hearings outside of ordinary times without two senators holding a veto.

This motion is firmly grounded in the Westminster tradition of recognizing parliamentarians’ freedoms to associate in groups and to play their part in the legislative process and hold any government of the day to account.

This motion enhances senators’ ability to perform our constitutional function without the need to be part of a government caucus or an opposition caucus.

Senator Plett has presented this Rules change motion as an unprecedented government motion drafted by an outgoing Prime Minister’s Office trying to ambush an upcoming strong majority of the Conservative Party.

For those who see conspiracies all around — at the United Nations, at the World Health Organization, at Davos and at other places — this narrative may be appealing.

But the facts are what we should be looking at. For those who are interested in facts, they should consider that these proposals and changes are along the lines of previous discussions over many years since I joined the Senate — six years ago — such as at the Senate Modernization Committee and the Rules Committee.

Indeed, these changes will bring our Rules in line with the changes to the Parliament of Canada Act, which we finally adopted in 2022 after attempts starting in 2020. It took a long time to get there. It had to be part of a budget as an omnibus bill, which I don’t like, but I did like that part of that omnibus bill.

Furthermore, this motion is not a first in Canadian history. Allow me to quote two passages from our Senate Procedure in Practice. First, I will refer to page iii on the topic of the Rules:

Several minor modifications were made in subsequent years, but those that occurred 1991 were the most far reaching. They were put in place following an unprecedented level of partisan rancor arising from the debate over the introduction of the Goods and Services Tax (GST). Among the changes incorporated into the Rules were time limits for specific proceedings, including Senator’s Statements, Routine Proceedings and Question Period. Time limits were also established for most speeches and for the bells for standing votes. An ordinary time of adjournment — midnight most days and 4 p.m. on Friday — was also fixed. In addition, priority was given to Government Business, which would be called in the order determined by the Government Leader or Deputy Leader. Provisions were also added to allow the government to impose time allocation for its business, and new procedures for dealing with questions of privilege were established.

A second interesting quote is found on page 73 of the same Senate Procedure in Practice:

The Orders of the Day are divided into two main categories: Government Business and Other Business. This distinction has been in place since 1991 when changes to the Rules of the Senate gave priority to the consideration of items sponsored by the government. Prior to this change, there was no such distinction.

Colleagues, from these passages, I note two important points. First, there was no distinction between Government Business and Other Business prior to 1991. Second, there was no time allocation rule prior to 1991.

In inquiring how these changes came about, as a matter of procedure, I found that these major rule changes were part of a massive package of rule changes adopted on June 18, 1991, at the initiative of the Conservative government of the then prime minister, the Right Honourable Brian Mulroney. They were adopted on a standing vote of 40 to 30.

An Hon. Senator: Well done.

Senator Dalphond: It was far from a consensus. Furthermore, these changes followed Prime Minister Mulroney’s appointment of an extra eight senators to the Senate in 1990 under a section of the Constitution that had never been used in Canadian history.

Some Hon. Senators: Oh.

Senator Dalphond: So we are not making big history tonight. It was made in 1991.

We can hardly speak of rule changes made on consensus. As a matter of fact, section 36 of the Constitution Act, 1867, requires that the Senate make decisions by majority. The Constitution does not permit us to make rules that will require a supermajority, like in the U.S. Senate, because it would be against the Constitution or, by implication, for example, giving a veto to a group of 13 senators. Furthermore, as Senator Sinclair said in 2020 in discussing potential rule changes proposed by him and me, as you may remember — it was a thick package, “. . . consensus should not be a precondition to doing the right thing . . . .” I believe in that.

In short, senators, the opposition’s case against this motion rests on propositions that are inaccurate and, furthermore, on a vision of our chamber that no longer exists. The reality is that we now have four groups in the Senate, and none has a majority. Hopefully, this will last.

We should not be ashamed of what we are doing. In fact, we are simply following the evolution of the Westminster model. As you know, we were modelled on the House of Lords, the upper chamber of the Westminster Parliament, many decades ago now. The House of Lords is made up of various groups, the four largest being the Conservatives, 277 peers; Labour, 172 peers; the Liberal Democrats, 80 peers; and the Crossbenchers, 181 peers. As you can see, none has a majority of seats. Despite the very unpopular Conservative government which is running England now, its bills make it through the House of Lords.

The rules proposed by the motion before us will ensure that the four groups we have here will enjoy equivalent status in many aspects. Ultimately, these new rules will reflect the equality between groups that we’re trying to achieve — a principle of equality that is important for all of us as individuals and as members of groups. Beyond that, it will guarantee the existence of four groups in this place, which comes with the freedom of each of us to affiliate with one of these groups and to change affiliations as time passes. It makes us more independent and not dependent on making a move such as crossing the floor when you disagree with your group.

Speaking of the Westminster model, I think we should go further than what we are doing now. We should follow what they have done already. For example, we could elect our Speaker. They took this away from the power of the Crown. The Speaker is now elected by secret ballot in the House of Lords.

Your Honour, that is not a criticism of you. I am sure you would win the vote. The issue is that this is the model that the House of Lords is following. This is what the Westminster model is evolving toward. Moreover, the chairs of the committees are selected by the whole house. It is a committee of chairs that chairs all the meetings of the committees. These are the standing lords who have been selected by the whole chamber, not by two or three members of a committee, to be the chair of that committee.

Colleagues, I will conclude with this: Some people are concerned about the fact that if these rules are adopted, I may not have unlimited time when I am giving my next speech. I understand the theory. In practice, I never use unlimited time. I won’t even use my 45 minutes today. Normally, I don’t use it because I believe that if your message is clear, it can be put to your colleagues in 15 minutes, maybe 30 minutes or 45 minutes. If you need more time than that, it is because your message is defective in more than one place.

Thank you very much, colleagues, for your attention.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.