Senator Cardozo: My question is for Ms. Johnston. I want to focus on the “Henry VIII” clauses which give the executive power to override various acts of Parliament. There is a list in Schedule 2 of Part 1, but, in fact, section 20 also says they can amend that list at any time and amend acts as I understand it.

You have endorsed the idea of big projects being done, and the purpose of the bill is to help big projects happen. I look at the parliamentary calendar. The House rises this week and then we look at the bill next week when we come back. Really, the best time to have the bill amended is this week in the House of Commons. I expect you are talking to our colleagues in the other house.

If this bill goes ahead, do you see this slowing things down? Do you see court cases happening? Do you have any other ideas about how we could have big projects and not have the delays that a lot of governments and businesses have complained about?

Ms. Johnston: Maybe I’ll start with the second part of the question. One of the things that I wish I saw in this bill was the implementation of the many tools that we know can help make processes more efficient and more effective. Independent review panels have been used in Canada for 50 years to build credibility, to bring in independent expertise and to do meaningful engagement.

There is a project that I like to refer to often that went through an assessment. It’s called the Voisey’s Bay nickel mine in Labrador. It went through an independent review panel assessment back in 1997. It took the panel under two years to review the project. What they found was that the communities were generally on board with the concept but were quite concerned that, as designed, the project would only last for about eight years because the proponent wanted to maximize production as quickly as possible.

Through the assessment, the proponent agreed to lower the production capacity and extend the lifespan of the project. It is still operating to this day. It just went through an expansion and it employs hundreds of people. That’s all done under two years.

In B.C., they model the use of working groups that bring communities, the proponent and experts together to focus assessments on the key issues. There are tools that exist in the toolkit. I’m not quite sure why Parliament didn’t opt to employ some of those known tools that tend to not just lead to more efficient assessments but also more credible and rigorous results.

I think because they didn’t choose to go that route, like I mentioned earlier, I’m worried that shutting the public out of decisions that affect them will lead to protests. Deciding that projects are in the national interest before talking to the public and before having meaningful consultation with Indigenous peoples could lead to lawsuits and more protests. We have heard statements coming out of First Nations saying this may lead to another Idle No More. That is incredibly disruptive and not nation building. I have a lot of concerns that this bill will end up inadvertently having the opposite effect than its goals.

Senator Cardozo: They could still approve projects and still abide by the rules? They could choose not to, but one could hope that they still abide by the laws, right?

Ms. Johnston: They could. I don’t know why they would give themselves the power to circumvent these laws if they didn’t intend to use them. Some of the projects that have been put on the table or talked about as being candidates for nation building, there are some species at risk concerns. I think species at risk is probably the greatest concern.

But one of the things that my friend from ports talked about was the Fisheries Act permitting requirements. That’s actually set out in regulations. An amendment that constrained the “Henry VIII” power to only allowing cabinet to amend regulations would still allow them to address those Fisheries Act issues which are causing some permitting delays without giving the executive what is effectively parliamentary powers.

There are amendments that I think would be able to achieve the goals the government is attempting to without creating this —

Senator Cardozo: Can I bring this to the House of Commons in the meantime?

Ms. Johnston: Yes.